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I've blogged it before. It was a bad idea then and it still is. This cancellation constitutes grossly unfair collective punishment. Young people who were students at MG did bad things off campus during Homecoming Week. Ergo, cancel Homecoming.
(Not to mention that most of the evil doers have long since moved on; the kids are being punished for something former students did when last year or years past.)
Adults drive drunk on Monona Drive. Ergo, close Monona Drive? Absurd, of course.
Is MG violating the Fourth Geneva Convention? Perhaps high school students are not 'protected persons' so they have a lawyer's way out.
Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention states:
No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited. Pillage is prohibited.
I particularly like that pillage is also prohibited.
I exaggerate a bit to make a point, but do we want our young people to learn individual responsibility or not? Collective punishment and individual responsibility are diametrically opposing principles.
Homecoming isn't a big deal in the great scheme of things, but teaching young people that it is OK to punish a group of people because of the acts of a few members of that group conditions young people to accept the legitimacy of collective punishment on things that really do matter.
Collective punishment is fundamentally wrong. We should not tolerate it. Perhaps some class time could be taken to examine some of the deleterious results of collective punishment in history.
But high school students are merely powerless young people, so adult educators can treat them in this manner and get away with it. What I found disheartening in the article was the young people's acceptance of this treatment without real dissent. But, of course, public schools are meant to develop conformity and have never encouraged dissent.
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism but some disagree on that point as well. As usual you hit the nail on the head again. What does our school board have to say on this?
ReplyDeleteDoug,
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with you. I wonder if Paul's hero is the principal for Bueller's Day off?
Just kiddin' of course.
HP
http://petersobol.blogspot.com/2009/10/homecoming-cancelled.html
ReplyDeleteI agree with Doug on this, who would want to teach their children to be the type to look down at the floor when someone is treating them unfairly, not look them straight in the eye and voice their opinion in an adult and respectful manner. It would be very cool if they rented a place like their community center and held their own party. They are citizens of Monona and would have a right to do so.
ReplyDelete"Speak your mind even if your voice shakes!"
"Before the war is ended, the war party assumes the divine right to denounce and silence all opposition to war as unpatriotic and cowardly." Robert M. La Follette
Paul A. Meyer
Doug and Mike, I couldn't agree more. Punish all for some is not right. It was the easy way out. It is also a shame that our youth are like sheep and not protesting this.
ReplyDeleteOf course if they protested all the students would be punished for that too...
I know this is not your question to answer, but why does the principal and the district feel the need to control events OUTSIDE of the school bld, ground and etc?
ReplyDeleteThese are events that are going on not at the school...so will the brewers cancel the cub series if the bus that went starts toilet papering houses in Waukesha?
This is a law enforcement issue and parents...pure and simple. I think stricter enforcement of the curfew rules would help during homecoming...might help or just overall.
Doug, I wonder what you (or any others that have commented) would do in Paul Brost's situation? After years of dealing with vandalism and the negativity that comes with homecoming week, what actions would you take to protect the learning environment at the high school? Homecoming week has gone from a week of celebrating school spirit to a week of opportunities to attack peers and break the law. Those negative activities have always spilled over into the school day making it a problem for the administration. Canceling homecoming was an option of last resort for Paul Brost and I applaud him for his actions.
ReplyDeleteI do agree we should educate our children about the potentially bad outcomes of collective punishment. However that lesson should not come at the expense of the entire learning environment at the high school.
Perhaps parents should take this opportunity and be active in their children’s education. We should talk to our children about collective punishment, individual responsibility and dissent, instead of just condemning the school administration for trying to provide a safe and productive environment for learning.
H. Dugan
I completely support Brost on this one. He has way more knowledge on this topic than any of us- way more insight and way more facts- and he has worked with the staff and students to create some good stuff happening at the school this year in lieu of....
ReplyDeleteIn general, it is a good idea to hire competant people and then not debate their every decision....
I agree with Principal Brost's actions on this. Homecoming at MG has been out of hand for some years now and is to the point where it is more than a few students engaged in the rowdiness and vandalism. It has really escalated to entire classes - esp seniors vs. juniors. There don't seem to be a lot of parents or other kids stepping up to stop the goings on either. Mr. Brost also gave everyone plenty of notice. Maybe a year or two with no homecoming will erase the institutional memory about bad homecomings in the past and the school can start over.
ReplyDelete"In general, it is a good idea to hire competant people and then not debate their every decision...."
ReplyDeleteWhen has Doug or I debated every decision that our pal has made? I do not recall posts about the blog block schedule.
I will put it to you this way. Brost is taking the easy way out on this one. He is using a sledge hammer on the whole HS student body. When a good stout hammer shoudl be used on a few.
HP
I'm proud to say that after being run out of Monona I was able to move to a city where the kids are standing up for what they believe in.
ReplyDeleteWhile being active in the process of the closing of the Hickory Lane mobile home park, I spoke, voice shaking, every time, but I wouldn't be silent and I knew I wouldn't be heard if I didn't speak up.
I hadn't realized then what the process of the closing of the park taught my child.
My kid spoke in front of the Monona City council after being dragged to the meetings to experience the process our government allows - free speech and being active in the democratic process. I was proud of her and her activism at such a young age when she gave her own personal account of how it was causing her hardship and of her concern for less abled neighbors of ours.
Recently her school banned a play she was cast in, due to it's content. I'm proud to say that she was part of the movement that began on Friday afternoon with a petition and ended with the reinstatement of the play on Monday afternoon.
Yes, a school has to take charge and do what is best for students/staff/others. It sounds as though the unrest at Monona is not unusual in this current time across the country.
The times they are a changin'.
With all the town hall meetings being held these days we should all take our kids to partake in what our country stands for.
Freedom, and we all know it's not free.
Side note - we ran into a ex classmate of my kids at the mall who was shopping for a "fall dance" dress. That was the first I had heard of the cancellation of Monona homecoming.
It's a shame that it couldn't have been an opportunity for the students, staff, and community to have a meeting to discuss due process.
I hope for the future of MGHS that there is a compromise to Homecoming in the future.
Apologies to H. Dugan. I somehow missed the email notifying me of that comment until this morning.
ReplyDeleteI do talk to my kids about personal responsibility and collective punishment, but then the school teaches them that collective punishment is OK.
BTW, I applaud Peter Sobol for responding my post and adding to this discussion on his blog. (http://petersobol.blogspot.com/2009/10/homecoming-cancelled.html). FYI, I am informed that the board has been advised not to post comments on blogs when the discussion is related to board issues due to fear of open meetings violations. Excessive caution, IMHO.
I would be interested in hearing Dr. Brost's thinking.
For the record, there were repeated meetings with students, staff and the community’s representatives (the board) to discuss the issue. Principal Brost has been working with and listening to students for years to resolve these issues, there has been an abundance of due process.
ReplyDeleteThe open meetings law is designed to prevent the public's business from being transacted in private. Nothing could be more public than a blog, in my view all public officials should be required to have and update one regularly.
After reading some of the posts here, on Sobol's site, and at channel 15's, I have to come down on the side of the administration and agree that it was a good idea.
ReplyDeleteYes a few kids may be the ones out at night, but the next day, I'm sure most of the school is talking about it. Kids were pretty good about talking when I was young, and I'm sure with cell phones and email they're better now. It seems very likely that it was harder to teach and learn with everyone distracted.
I'm not sure that cancelling the week will stop the stuff outside of school, but it's worth trying. At the very least, it could disperse the events over several weeks which make it easier for the staff to refocus the kids.
On a separate issue, Doug, do you know if the Monona PD and/or the Cottage Grove PD agree with this? I would think that they feel they have better things to do then look for kid TPing homes.
FYI the post that starts: "For the record," was mine- I forgot to log in before I posted
ReplyDelete"On a separate issue, Doug, do you know if the Monona PD and/or the Cottage Grove PD agree with this? I would think that they feel they have better things to do then look for kid TPing homes."
ReplyDeleteThe Monona PD patrol lieutenant will probably be out there - not OT. Otherwise, they will respond to calls. A reliable source tells me that most of the problems have occurred in CG in the past (makes sense because that's where most of the students live).
"Homecoming week has gone from a week of celebrating school spirit to a week of opportunities to attack peers and break the law."
ReplyDeleteThat statement is grossly unfair to the vast majority of MGHS students and inaccurate.
As an alum of MG (within the past 5 years) I feel I can greatly relate to this issue. I completely disagree with the decision made by Paul Brost.
ReplyDeleteYes, when I was in school we did TP each others houses - most of it in good fun. There were few, and I mean few, students that went beyond that to egging and, what I consider, more serious forms of vandalism. Those students were not applauded and no one was happy with their actions. We too had to deal with collective punishment (on a smaller scale) due to their actions. We had individual events canceled and most of the competition between grades was eliminated within the school. I can honestly tell you I was not at all happy when they were canceled. I never went beyond TPing (yes, I did TP) anyone's houses, and I hated that I had to be punished for another individuals selfish actions.
When I look back to high school some of my fondest memories are from Homecoming week. I truly hope that the current students at MG will try to hold their own dance or 'homecoming type' event outside of school. I would applaud them for this if they chose do so.
- Class of 2004
For those of you reading the NBC 15 news cast about this issue: The specific events they mention took place when I was in school, 5 years ago. Ask yourselves this: Should MG students today be punished for actions that happened before they were even Freshmen?
Board Member Jason McCutchin has posted on this issue over at his blog:
ReplyDeletehttp://jasonmccutchin.blogspot.com/2009/10/homecoming-cancelled.html
While I don't agree with collective punishment, how is this any different than holding a bar responsible for the actions that take place outside of it's establishment? From what I can remember, many of the complaints (not all but some) about BSG came about because of what people were doing congregating outside in the parking lot. The rationale is often that punishing or closing a bar will remove the source of the problem, even if they are not directly responsible for it.
ReplyDeleteRereading your post from Dec 13 of last year, the following complaints were from outside the bar:
June 15th
May 4th (x2)
April 13th (loud music from vehicles)
March 30th
etc.
While I didn't agree with the sanctions (and don't agree with cancelling homecoming) I do at least see the rationale in "removing the source of the problem". No, it's not fair, but then again, my mom always said life wasn't fair...
Travis,
ReplyDeleteDo you feel OK? Eat too much pie?? This post is not up to your usual standards. ;->
How is different? How is it the same? Let's just talk about bars in general because there is still pending litigation on BSG.
Bars are licensed for-profit businesses. A liquor license come with special duties and responsibilities. They need to control the use of alcohol and have adequate security to keep everyone safe indoors and out. If they don't then the bar owners are subject to sanctions.
If there is an analogy here, then I suppose it would the school administration (owners) should be subject to penalties, not the entire student body (customers). Just like at a bar, the customers (students) who break the law should be punished. But really it is not really analogous.
As to your mom always saying life wasn't fair, didn't she then go on to say, 'Life isn't fair, so do something about it. Organize, don't agonize!'
Or 'Workers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains.' Or 'The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them.'
No, wait, that was Karl Marx.
Shape up and submit better comments! I said that.
;->
(Still kidding around).