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Eleven Monona residents spoke or registered in support of the chicken keeping ordinance. No residents spoke against it - except for the Mayor and some members of the council! The ordinance was referred to the Plan Commission as required by law for any zoning change and to the Public Safety Committee because they oversee the building inspector.
At this point it looks like Alders Speight and Miller and myself support the ordinance and that Alders Thomas, Kugle, and Wiswell are skeptical at best.
Some valid and expected questions were raised, including whether chicken feed attracts rats and whether the high phosphorous content of chicken manure would create a pollution runoff problem.
Mayor Kahl flat out said he would not support the proposal. Frankly, his attitude was dismissive. He lectured me for bringing forward a proposal that staff will 'waste' time on. He clearly did not think that the council should be spending any time on it. Factual objections I can attempt to address with factual responses. His attitude is almost certainly beyond my poor powers of persuasion to change.
If you think it did not go down this way, the video of the meeting should be up on the web site in the next day or so. Move the slider over to about one hour and fifteen minutes into the meeting and judge for yourself the mayor's attitude when he says he 'did not think we would be spending this much time on chickens' (paraphrasing).
Well, we shall have to try and work around the mayor on this issue. It's the beginning of the process, not the end.
Monday, February 02, 2009
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Well, if the pollution caused by a few backyard chickens is as extreme as Alder Kugle suggests, then I suspect that factory chicken production is an environmental catastrophe. It turns out that Oklahoma is a wasteland thanks in part to Purdue Chickens, Inc. Certainly, phosphorous pollution is a real and serious concern which we need to consider.
ReplyDeleteIf chickens are so polluting, then Monona should ban the sale and consumption of chicken meat and eggs in Monona, for the sake of our lakes. Monona should not turn other communities into wasteland just to feed our ravenous chicken habit. Certainly, the mayor is very concerned about our lakes, as am I, and he would not want to spoil them any further. Chickens consumed in Dane County are likely to poop upstream of Lake Monona; particularly the local, organic variety. Perhaps only Mexican eggs and chickens should be allowed? (They poop downstream, right?) I completely expect and support a serious debate and process of balancing competing interests, but we cannot allow a FoxNews in the Henhouse spin on this legitimate public issue.
Like Alder Wood, I support a free society which allows citizens to live freely, constrained only by the need to balance the well-being of the community with the freedom of the individual. Limits on chicken-raising is necessary, but must we ban them completely? Monona needs to make laws based on accurate science, and a reasonable recognition of competing interests. This ordinance is reasonable and very limiting on the public.
I remain open-minded, of course, and I intend to learn more about the actual phosphorous threat. But how can we allow chicken products to be sold and consumed in Monona if chickens are indeed so harmful to our local ecosystem?
Alder Chad Speight
The mayor and alder Miller's comments about not liking the way chickens are killed and how the mayor left the farm for the city must make rural folks wonder what going on in Monona!
ReplyDeleteI am grateful for all the great chicken dinners I ate at my uncle's farm table and cooked on a kerosene stove after having been killed and plucked by my aunt.
Meat packing etc is ok if its not done where 'city folks' live.
Well, there's always the referendum route, right?
ReplyDeleteI watched the meeting last night with interest, awe and amusement and have several thoughts.
ReplyDelete1. Most of the arguments against this ordinance seemed to be that of the straw chicken type -the council needs to understand it is what it is. If residents follow the ordinance we will not have trouble with smell or predators. The dog issue presented by Kathy was clearly a red herring if she has problems with people NOT following the rules ABOUT DOGS than let us do something about it or start the discussion.
The dog issue has nothing to do with the chicken controversy.
The argument about chicken poop was a new one on me, but the suggestion that we need to build berms is one of the strangest arguments-I have ever heard. Honestly, my neighbor who has least 4 large dogs needs to build a berm and a soundproof fence because it a public nuisance for anyone within .5 miles.
Yea, the Mayor seemed a bit agitated last night. If he does not like the discussion about how we can all be more sustainable than why in heavens name did he appoint a sustainability committee? Further, he works under what is called a strong council and weak mayor system-it is what it is.
His argument seemed to be based on his grandfather (Did I ever tell you-why my dad does not eat Hot Dogs?) and a strain on city resources. Once again, I found myself on your side-what exactly is the strain? (This being on your side is getting…strange.)
The undertone to all of the arguments seemed to be we have better things to do. I ask say this: present the more important issue to talk about? Yes-the bridges are more important, but what else? Hell, Jefferson, WI passed a similar ordinance because of one chicken smooth talker and you rounded about 11 (‘cept this chicken).
2. IMHO, the slaughter issue is the toughest egg to crack here. What to do with the bodies-short of eating these tasty, low fat and low calorie relatives of dinosaurs? (I am betting you wanted to crack some jokes about politicians and slaughter, but you knew better?)
3. What happened to Speight-I got the feeling that he left you on point-last night to take the shelling-said he had your rear but then melted like a meringue in the dog days of summer? However, this morning he comes out hard FOR the chicken issue. Is there a small chance, he is sitting you up or a closet no?
4. Why in God’s name was this going to be referred to public safety? If they want to make jokes about you going mad-have they gone mad?
5. I get the feeling you found the secret chicken coop?
6. I got to go with the argument that Guifoil articulated this morning; it is a liberty issue; as well as about being closer to our own food chain.
7. If you have five minutes this you tube video about Missoula, MT and chickens-pretty much sums up the issues that were articulated last night. It is also funny: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJJm3fz0w9I
Well-my friend-I wish you the best.
Henny Penny
I'll look forward to the day when community issues like this one or the bridge issue can be discussed/sorted out realtime on Doug Wood's program on WMWI-FM in Monona. Just think of all the great ideas the entire town could present in a forum they all would have easy access to, with no subscription fee. If an issue wasn't discussed enough on Doug's show I'm sure Heather Gates would cover it on the Natural Step Monona Show. I hope Monona will keep that in mind when we need donations or to approve funding for an FM transmission system.
ReplyDeleteIf the Mayor was a guest on either of those shows, callers could give him some direct feedback on issues that matter to us, and to help him move Monona forward in the same direction.
Paul Meyer Shore Acres Rd. Monona
"What happened to Speight....Is there a small chance, he is sitting you up or a closet no?"
ReplyDeleteNo chance. I did not feel hung out to dry at all. I took the lead on this one; he's taken the lead on other stuff (transit and ped sfaety). It's all good.
"Well, there's always the referendum route, right?"
ReplyDeleteThat thought did run across my mind, too. I'm not entirely sure whether you can do zoning changes through direct legislation. And, really, fer cryin' out loud, we need to go to referendum to let people keep a few chickens?! Criminy.
I won't keep chickens, but I wouldn't mind if my neighbors do.
ReplyDeleteMany people in Monona have ample yards.
Some dogs bark too much, and are far worse than chickens.
Maybe keeping chickens could be allowed by a conditional use permit. The future chicken keepers could convince (wine and dine and so forth) the neighbors, and if no one objects, there you go.
Would getting rid of the permitting clause make this more agreeable? If people didn't have to file a permit for chickens with city staff, then we wouldn't be creating more work. Many cities that allow chickens don't require a fee or permit to keep them.
ReplyDeleteFor that matter, is there any law on the books that expressly forbids the keeping of chickens?
Ben,
ReplyDeleteThe staff time thing was a red herring. My understanding is that Madison gets 10 complaints per year. If you pro-rate that, then we would get 0 or 1 per year.
The ordinances prohibit 'agriculture' (except for small gardens) in residential zoning districts. You could probably keep a chicken as a pet, but when does that become agriculture?
My thought was that it would better to make it clear that it is legal and set some ground rules.
The mayor's comments when contrasted with the public appearances (11 pro, 0 con) show again that he is out of touch. Instead of listening and doing the people's business he is as usual just doing his own. Its time for new leadership - Doug, Chad - run for mayor will ya?
ReplyDeleteRecently, I was asked if this chicken issue was just a joke.
ReplyDeleteOriginally, it was not a joke (more of thought about a new hobby for me) and then Doug hurt my feelings by making fun of me when I asked him if I could do it.
Then it became more of a joke ‘cause my pride was hurt and chicken jokes are about as easy as...well forget it-this is a family blog.
Again, I am out of the chicken business-I spend most of my time chasing our dog who thinks yesterday’s poop is the equlivent of dinner at Ruth Christ’s,….or maybe even old country Buffett.
At the end of day, I think if a group of citizens or a citizen wants to raise a few chickens and abide by the spirit of the proposed ordinance-why not? The problems are minimal.
Further, I get the feeling that the 11 who testified were not joking. Those citizens were genuine, serious and earnest about this issue. As for me-I would be more amused and entertained by chickens than the four barking dogs my neighbor owns.
My two cents-
Henny Penny
PS-I started a book club at work and we are reading friedman's new book-have you had a chance to read it?
What the cluck!?
ReplyDelete"It's time for new leadership- Doug, Chad - run for mayor will ya?"
ReplyDeleteRun for Mayor? You betcha. But let's pause for a moment, and consider the current field of candidates. If one of us were running for mayor, what would happen to the council?
The mayor certainly has more power than a single alder, but the council itself runs the city. Of course, the committees tend to slow down or kill many things, and this is where the Mayor exercises a lot of power. Many of the committees are very lop-sided toward the old guard, which is content to see Monona whither away, slowly.
We need to have more progressive activists and elected leaders, PERIOD. Stand up, anonymous, and be counted! We need every forward-looking citizen to get involved, at every level of government. I dream of the day when progressive candidates actually compete for council seats; and the progressive majority actually shows up on election day. Let's not forget, Doug and I need to win, both of us.
Alderman Chad Speight
Oh my god, I can't beleive that I am reading this stuff.
ReplyDeleteEither run, or be quiet. You sound ridiculous, like the city would fall apart if you didn't get reelected, and you can't risk not getting reelected by running for Mayor.
That argument is just as silly as everything else I have listened to you debate.
Chad-
ReplyDelete"Many of the committees are very lop-sided toward the old guard, which is content to see Monona whither away, slowly"
Don't you think the last part of your statement is a little strong? I do not know of anyone in that crowd that wants our Grand City wither. They are probably doing what they think is best and you disagree...pretty simple you disagree on some issues, some processes and maybe the excustion of stuff....but I am guessing you all want the same.
You had my vote last time, but you will not get it by talking like that this time.
HP
(Our PAC has still not endorsed anyone for council-so opportunity may knock for you.)
It is truly saddening and maddening to have the mayor treat developers and business people as his best buddies while treating those Monona citizens who are working to make our world less "developed," more rationally-scaled and self-sustaining in such a dismissive way.
ReplyDeleteForward-thinking he is not. Things are going to change radically in the future. As the chickens come home to roost after the greed-and-consumption-fest of the last generations, we should be prepared for a different way of living, but the Mayor isn't helping us prepare for that. He's screwing Monona by managing the city for the status quo.
Having chickens is just one of the many ways citizens could start to be more self-sustaining. If Mayor Kahl were forward-thinking, he would see the economic benefit of being more self-sustaining and would not say outright that he wouldn't vote for the chicken ordinance if his vote was needed.
Is he also a snob? Is there a class element to this? Does he pehaps think he and his "type" are better than the rest of us and that's why he didn't value the input of the eleven citizens who registered in favor of the ordinance? (I don't know him, so I can't say. Just wondering.)
Henny,
ReplyDeleteWhen your PAC finally gets around to endorsing somebody(ies), please make the check to 'Doug Wood for Monona' (the bank is verrrry picky) and keep it at $100 or less. ;->
HP-
ReplyDeleteYou are correct. My tone was too harsh. I occasionally say or write things in strident tones, which betrays my sincere respect for all of the citizens of Monona. All citizens deserve a voice, and I try to honor and respect each citizen. I hope that my demeanor at council meetings and committee meetings is evidence of this.
Yes, anyone who would run for office, or volunteer their time, does so for the love of our great city. I do understand that. And yes, to the extent that we disagree, and debate priorities and issues, I am absolutely committed to civil debate. I think I have a very good relationship with all of the alders and the mayor, though we certainly disagree and debate many topics.
I try to argue for what I believe to be the best for this city, and I am passionate about the issues and needs which have led me to serve. I know this applies to any citizens involved in government.
I will always apologize if I am rude, dismissive, or disrespectful of any citizen. I will also passionately defend
-the rights of citizens in a free society;
-reasonable regulation for the good of the community; and
-excellent services provided by government when such services are necessary to promote the general welfare and enable the pursuit of happiness.
These are the things that I believe in.
Certainly, I would hope to earn your support and respect, along with the majority of citizens in Monona. When I fail to meet that standard, I appreciate hearing about it.
I also know that my perspective, or my support of certain issues, will win some votes and lose others. That is the democratic process. I consider elected office to be a high honor, and I am grateful for the trust and responsibility bestowed upon me.
Sincerely,
Alderman Chad Speight
Oh my God. Will someone please bring Alder Speight back down to earth? I don't think that I can wait for the election...........
ReplyDeleteI saw Chad at the library last night. That is on Earth.
ReplyDeleteHow were his comments un-earth-like?
Better than your vapid vaporings.