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I wanted to do a very quick post this morning with more details later. The Mayor's proposal for a new police position did not get much support at last night's Monona city council budget meeting. The general sense was that the number of citations and revenue from forfeitures was not feasible, that we need more data on the problem, and a desire to look at traffic engineering solutions before we add a new police officer.
We are buying a new gizmo that can track speeds and count vehicles and that can give us good data to use in assigning limited resources.
Also, Mayor Robb Kahl announced that he plans to seek reelection in the 2009 Spring election.
Friday, November 14, 2008
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Glad to see the police proposal go down, but not before Monona received negative press. Again. Hindsight is always clear, but good grief - did our mayor not understand that: 1)This is the sort of thing that would certainly generate press coverage, 2)This coverage would not portray Monona in positive light but rather as striving to be just another Rosendale and 3)Anything he brings forth that involves the police should be done in concert with the Chief of Police? When will the people in Monona stop giving the mayor a free pass at every election? He seems to be a decent person, but it is not good for the citizenry when the mayor of city never has to stand up to challenges about his/her performance.
ReplyDeleteThe mayor stated he would prefer traffic calming, like speed tables, but the fire chief adamantly opposes them while the police chief would like to see them used. To some extent, perhaps a great extent, my guess is he used the proposal to get the conversation moving toward a resolution and it may work.
ReplyDeleteIs the coverage really a negative?
I do think we have speeding problem. I like the Mayor's idea, but the pace of tickets would be incredible.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I would rather you cut police admin or one of our detectives and add an patrol officer or make the detectives run radar.
I do not like the idea of speed bumps. I read once where the hot wheels speed gun will actually work on big cars.
Do we have citizen's arrest abilities in this town (not for chickens-of course)?..just kiddin.
HP
First, I look forward to your update-I watched a part of the meeting. I object to more money being spent on bball diamonds UNTIL we get the parks in the downtown area cleaned up- money spent their would have a bigger impact. I think having dogs chase geese is fine and amusing, but imho it will not solve the problem.
ReplyDeletethanks for listening.
I don't think blatantly funding a cop through writing traffic tickets is an especially warm and fuzzy way to portray our community. Saying "we don't want to be like Rosendale" while doing exactly what Rosendale does, pretty much compares us with, well, Rosendale, doesn't it? It would be nice to be in the news for something creative, innovative and inviting.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see a pattern of where people speed as I haven't seen it much. Hell, I've barely seen a cop out on Monona Drive, let alone on the backroads.
ReplyDeleteMy biggest concern would be that even if people slowed down, there would still be continued incentive for the officer to ticket any and all offenses, no matter how minor. People slow down from 35 to 30mph because of the new law enforcement? Too bad, 5mph over is still against the law, etc.
Is this mainly along the southern end of Winnequah? Along the northern end we don't have a specific bike lane, or the neat (god-awful) up/down sidewalks, or any of those problems... We just have a narrow, unmarked street where we ride bikes down the middle of the road. You guys should try that on lower Winnequah. :)
Hi Travis,
ReplyDeleteYou talk about lower Winnequah vs. upper Winnequah. Honestly, I wish we had the chance to try things your way.
I went to all of the W Road meetings. Trust me, this road has NOT turned out like I envisioned. I met with several engineers and city employees, but none of my ideas, hopes, or dreams have been implemented.
I live on "lower" Winnequah, and I am probably also known as the crazy lady who, on occasion, has jumped out in the middle of Winnequah Road during the morning rush hour, yelling at people to slow down, perhaps STOP!!! while the big yellow bus picking up children in the 4-7 year old range are waiting on the sidelines for their ride to school. Seriously, people don't even bother to STOP when the bus has the big red stop sign sticking out!!
You can debate for many hours your thoughts on this proposed police position. Frankly, I am still not completely sure how I feel about it. However, I must give the Mayor credit for at least TRYING to make a difference for the safety of the children in our neighborhood.
Seriously, this has been a large problem for the 12 years that I have lived on Winnequah Rd. Frankly, I don't care WHY the attention is occurring now - at least there is attention, and maybe now I won't be the Lone Ranger jumping out into traffic during the morning rush hour.
For those of you posting to this blog and to the local papers, all I can do is invite you to spend a morning in my driveway......I would willingly host you. However, I would need advance notice. You see, I no longer embark on the adventure of kids crossing the road to board the bus. Now, I just get up a little bit earlier and drive them to school instead. It's much safer, considering the current conditions on Winnequah Road.
Cari Fuss
You need to speak with the bus company if the driver is not calling in the license number of cars who violate the flashing red lights. It is standard procedure for tickets to be issued on this basis. So far, there is no documentation of the problems you cite. A video camera would be of good use to you. We were not able to get a stop light up by the high school until some parents video-taped the safety problems there. In these very tough budgeting times, we cannot expand the budget for police or anything else without quantitative documentation of the need. Squeaky wheel budgeting is not the way to go about things.
ReplyDeleteDo the school buses have cameras on them?
ReplyDeleteNo cameras on school buses - these are 4 year olds!
ReplyDeleteSeveral times, the drivers have tried to note license plate numbers - the drivers mostly drive away before that is accomplished. Mostly, they just beep their horns long and loud, trying to grab the attention of the errant driver.
I get the sense that the drivers have to get their loads delivered on time, and that is their focus. That, and the saftey of the kids once they board that bus.
I would love to work further on this issue, but like I said, I have lived here for 12 years. Not much has changed, even with the creatively designed road. I am surprised that during my time here, I have only witnessed 2 injury-accidents on my block. Both brought the ambulance, and comments about people being lucky to be alive.
But, I recognize that I am only one person - and one person who has a full time job, among other responsibilities. At this point, the best use of my time is ensuring the safety of my kids, and hoping that everyone else is doing the same.
You can call me a squeaky wheel if you want, but this is a true issue and I am not the only resident who recongnizes it. We lobbied for a stop sign that would stop traffic heading on to Bridge Road, because we thought then people would at least hit the brakes before they take the Bridge Road corner, but it didn't happen for fears of traffic backing up.
I find it interesting that there is a stop sign at Upper Winnequah, when not a single injury accident was documented, but on lower Winnequah, where that is not the case, there is no traffic control, not even bump outs.
If you've got extra time, and you'd like to hang out in my driveway, let me know. Bring your video camera!
Cari Fuss
Travis,
ReplyDeleteHonestly, what Monona do you live in-it is pretty easy to note the palaces people speed.
lower Winnequah (I ain't going to her house unless there are fresh omelts with champagne)
Upper Frost Woods-nees a stop sign
Midwood-the whole darn stretch
Nicholas
Slyvan
Dean _neeeds a stop sign
Monona drive.
Those are just the ones I know-
HP
I am betting it is not midwood-
ReplyDeleteI think Henny Penny probably meant MIDMOOR, which also has a serious speeding problem.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHP,
ReplyDeleteDid you mean Midmoor instead of MidWOOD?
You want stop signs on Monona Drive?
And anon, how do you define 'serious speeding problem' on Midmoor?
Doug,
ReplyDeleteI think you should ask the police officers who have been running radar on Midmoor, and ask the neighbors who've repeatedly called police and taken down car descriptions and license plate numbers for that information.
I have not seen the data from PD yet. My understanding is that it shows that speeding on Midmoor is generally not excessive, but that there are a few cars going quite fast.
ReplyDeleteBut, if you are the same anon, I was asking what YOU think is a serious speeding problem.
Yes, Midmoor is a problem.
ReplyDeleteI do not live there, but like to bike and walk that stretch and there is a problem-there.
HP
Here it is-
ReplyDeleteI still say Hot Wheels Radar Guns and Citzen's Arrest-
We could even all mass flow to an area for a couple of days...lawn chairs and a fast car and a siren.
It appears we do have that right (citizen's arrest).
cite is as follows:
¶8. In general, citizens may arrest when a felony or misdemeanor affecting a breach of the peace is committed in their presence. Gorz, 166 Wis. 2d at 246-47. .....
¶9. While a citizen can only arrest for breaches of the peace committed in his or her presence, the right to arrest exists "while [the breach of peace] is continuing, or immediately after it has been committed, or while there is a continuing danger of its renewal." See 5 Am. Jur.2d Arrest §57 (1995) (footnotes omitted). Restatement (Second) of Torts §119(c) is in accord with this rule and provides: "a private person is privileged to arrest another without a warrant for a criminal offense ... if the other, in the presence of the actor, is committing a breach of the peace or, having so committed a breach of the peace, he [or she] is reasonably believed by the actor to be about to renew it."
HP
I'm not that ANON, but I would guess I would define a problem to be a car going fast enough that they lose the ability to react to a biker or walker (like me) in the roadway. IE, going over the speed limit. Aren't there set speed limits for a reason>?
ReplyDeleteSorry to spoil your omelet, but speeding is not a criminal offense.
ReplyDeleteWell-
ReplyDeleteI disagree-kinda.
In Waukesha vs Gorz.
The court ruled if a citizen has probable cause to believe drunk driving is at hand-then a citizen's arrest is OKEY DOKEY.
Interesting, I live on Clear Spring and usually take Dean out, or occasionally Winnequah going north, and have rarely seen people speeding on either. I'm surprised that you mention Dean since when driving I usually see people going about 30-32mph, which is pretty close to the fudge factor usually allowed by the police (that's at least during commuting hours). At any rate it's not what I'd call excessive speeding by any means. I also usually bike/walk Midmoor on the weekends, and rarely see people speeding there either.
ReplyDeleteThe only place I really see speeding is Monona Drive, and since I'm occasionally on my bike on that road, it's definitely noticeable. I would say that that is more of a problem than any/all speeding I've seen on the backroads put together.
Yes, but the court considered drunk driving to be a 'breach of the peace' and I don't think your ordinary speeding would meet that standard.
ReplyDeleteThe Gorz court stated: "operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated is an activity which threatens the public security and involves violence. As such, it amounts to a breach of the peace."
In all seriousness, I would add that in Gorz the "citizen's arrest" was made by a trained police officer who was outside of his jurisdiction and therefore did not technically have law enforcement authority. A very quick review of the reported cases shows that all of them involve a police officer who is outside their jurisdiction. These are NOT Joe the Citizen.
In other words, please do not try this at home. A citizen's arrest by a regular citizen could go seriously wrong in so many ways.
I consider 32 in a residential area too fast.
ReplyDeleteThere is a difference between 7 over at 65 and 7 over in a 25.